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  • "Bottom line: Don't force your own opinions and choices on others. Live your own life and be yourself."

     the reason I say this is I think "bring it on!" Do your drugs, have your operations, then we will see who is really stronger.

    That way we could test different peoples theories in practice.

    I move that the rules in sports should be changed to reflect the constantly changing world of diets,drugs, training methods, and medical procedures.

    If we keep it taboo it makes "kids and young athletes" think there is something special or good about them. If everything were legal and we knew what each athlete was doing as far as this goes we would have a great, almost double blind, science experiment going on where we could see first hand what works and what does not.

    We here at this site tend to believe that the raw vegan athletes would eventually outperform the drugged up zombies anyway so what are we worried about?

    As far as people getting hurt. Ya I see your point. Young people can be quite naive, but that's what the elders are for. "Hey kid, that dope aint gona get you very far. I used that stuff and it got me no where. Sure you may get some short term wins but when your my age you will be stiff and old" -Elder Athlete 

    I think the damage and ineffectiveness of many of these things will show through in the long run, but we need to have them out in the open so we know whats really going on. People are going to do these things and try to hide it anyway, might as well know about it..

  • For those interested, Part 2 of the France Neilstrong interview is on in 20 minutes http://ownspecial.oprah.com/lancearmstrong.html

    OWN - Oprah and Lance Armstrong: The Worldwide Exclusive
  • Lance used no drugs.

    He put his blood to rest so it would be stronger the next day.

    Also I think all drugs and procedures should be OK in all sports.

    That way we can see whose diet or whose drug program works the best. Also its up to the individual weather or not they want to screw their body up for short term gains. Let 'em kill themselves for a medal if that's what floats their boat. Just make 'em tell what they do so we all know.

    We could also have long term endurance contests to see which athletes last the longest in the long term(10-20 years).

    Bottom line: Don't force your own opinions and choices on others. Live your own life and be yourself.

    • No actually, if all athletes took drugs, the individuals who win would be the ones whose body reacts best to drugs. They would not give all athletes who choose to dope equal advantages. It would no longer be an athletic competition, it would be a luck-based competition of who's body was best suited to certain drugs, and a money-based competition of who can have a strangle-hold on the best doctors and scientist (as Lance actually did), because the science of performance-enhancing drugs is big business and moves quickly. Lance was not a superior athlete, but his body reacted the best to the drugs. And he did take drugs, he took the synthetic form of erythropoietin which increases your red blood cells so that you can carry more oxygen. His blood transfusions were to evade testing positive as well as to "rest" his blood.

      By saying "don't force your opinions on others" below saying "I think all drugs and procedures should be OK in all sports" is actually a way of forcing your own opinion through on this thread and stifling debate. Firstly the "let them all dope" stance shows a lack of knowledge of the science of performance enhancing drugs. Secondly, if they had "enhanced" and "natural" categories in sport, no one would care about the open dopers, and some athletes competing in the natural category would simply carry on trying to cheat. Thirdly, it is debatable whether personal choice actually exists, because when an individual chooses to take risks with their body they risk upsetting their loved ones. No man is an island. Also those in the public eye, such as Lance, are role models and their behaviour is imitated by fans. His behaviour was bullying and pervasive and ensured that everyone else had to dope to keep up with him. Those who's bodies did not respond as well to the drugs were simply left behind. He was a champion doper and nothing else.

      • By saying "don't force your opinions on others" below saying "I think all drugs and procedures should be OK in all sports" is actually a way of forcing your own opinion through on this thread and stifling debate.

        you have made a completely correct observation here, victoria.

        in fact, the statement "don't force your opinion on others" is a 'forcing of your opinion on others'. :D

        this self-referential (and self-annihilating) mechanism is discussed in this thread:

        "people shouldn't tell others what to do"

        excellent post all round too!

        welcome to 30bad as well, victoria!

        in friendship,

        prad

        • "in friendship" pradtf, "I think" are the first two words I use in the sentence you say I am forcing on people. YOU can think whatever you want and I am not telling you otherwise by saying "I think"

          You know, since you are an intelligent man, that drugs and procedures will always be used and hidden no matter how many "rules" we have.

          I am just suggesting that the dopers come clean so we can compete on all levels.

          • hello trevor!

            your "i think" isn't at issue here. victoria's correct observation was regarding your comment here:

            Bottom line: Don't force your own opinions and choices on others. Live your own life and be yourself.

            http://www.30bananasaday.com/xn/detail/2684079:Comment:3027846

            surely you can see that you are doing your own bit of 'forcing' thereby creating a logical dilemma. besides, pragmatically it's not a good idea to just "live your own life" (in the sense of "minding your own business") when there really are things you can do to improve the state of things by opposing and helping to stop certain questionable actions others engage in.

            You know, since you are an intelligent man, that drugs and procedures will always be used and hidden no matter how many "rules" we have.

            your reference to my intelligence is appreciated. however, it should not be utilized as a mechanism to provide agreement with your reasoning above. :D

            additionally, the rationale you submit is faulty because:

            1. you don't really know whether drugs and procedures will always be used. (you are simply speculating).

            2. just because something is a certain way at present, there is no necessity to accept it and permit its continued existence. (change is often brought about through vigorous opposition).

            ironically, your statement here:

            I for one am confident that it will be the clean, non-drugged, vegans that win in the end, no matter how "well" some druggies body responds in the short term.

            http://www.30bananasaday.com/xn/detail/2684079:Comment:3030235

            provides an interesting argument against your "drugs and procedures will always be used" in the following way:

            1. athletes presumably do drugs in order to get an advantage to win

            2. you suggest non-drugged will win eventually

            therefore, athletes will eventually not do drugs (presumably because they want to win), hence drugs and procedures will not always be used.

            the above argument is correct - at least, logically.

            in reality, we'll see, but i like to think you will be right on this count.

            I am just suggesting that the dopers come clean so we can compete on all levels.

            that would certainly bring back the true intent of sport and sportsmanship.

            however, it seems some may need considerable help through enforcement and repercussions for their present actions.

            in friendship,

            prad

      • This is exactly why I think the drugs should be OK. BECAUSE these people are role models and BECAUSE people will see what happens.

        The drugged up people will eventually fail and have lasting effects from their drug use and the clean ones will thrive and stay on top. This will show the world the fallacy of drugging to improve performance.

        There will always be people trying to "get an edge" or "cheat". There will always be new drugs or ways to administer them. All I'm saying is come clean with that shit and lets have a REAL competition! Lets see who OVERALL can last and win time and time again..

        I for one am confident that it will be the clean, non-drugged, vegans that win in the end, no matter how "well" some druggies body responds in the short term.

  • You can win without drugs the problem is so many are drug addicts.

    Lance is a big time loser goof.

    Take Care,

    • Are you speaking from experience? 

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