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The scientist James Lovelock says humans pulled the trigger and now we can't save the planet...

Posted by kt on April 15, 2010 at 10:36am in Off topic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8594000/8594561.stm

 

He has also said that he fears humans will die by war and starvation as the conditions change dramatically and the Earth/Gaia simply cannot cope with it. What do people think of this? It's not an easy subject I know people will say well we'll be dead anyway, but apparently things are set to change rapidly in the next 10-100 years. Not very positive! I bet there are many scientists who disagree but he's a renowned scientist and there's a lot to what he says I think.

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  • Akincana Krishna das April 16, 2010 at 6:20pm
    more ideal than forgoing cars for buses and other types of transport would be to get rid of all transport that relies on fossil fuels. that is the real formula for sustainability and living in harmony with the earth. fossil fuels take millions of years for the earth to produce. it's totally unnatural for humans to being burning it.


    electricity, gasoline -- all unnatural, all the cause of so much pollution, destruction, unnatural living. riding a car, plane, bus, train, or any of it is like the steak-eating of transportation.

    of course, we can't imagine actually giving that up, but i think that's the real standard that nature can fully support.
  • Akincana Krishna das April 16, 2010 at 6:06pm
    I disagree that overpopulation is a problem. I think that's a myth. Like Gandhi said "there is enough in this world for our need, but not for our greed." The real issue is the nature of our consciousness, not how many of us there are.

    If people lived in harmony and balance with nature, this world could sustain far more human population than exists now. But because people are selfish and shortsighted, and live wildly unnatural lifestyles, the world can no longer sustain our population.

    I agree, Zoe, that there is something desirable about our modern civilization collapsing. I also agree that it's negative to think "there is no hope" if that only keeps us indulging in the same destructive habits that has gotten humanity into the mess it's in.

    Here's a question: What would it look like for human beings to living in perfect harmony with nature?
  • rob April 16, 2010 at 1:15am
    I find it hard to argue with anything he says about climate change being inconvenient, about scientists or renewable energy. The end result is still difficult to say. We have to keep on doing the right things though for ourselves. The people in power however have all the power. And I don't have much faith in them.
  • kt April 16, 2010 at 12:56am
    yep but number 1 would be to preferably stop consuming cows!
  • Akincana Krishna das April 15, 2010 at 6:03pm
    Recently, I read a book I thought was really good with a similar conclusion:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13911930/End-of-Modern-Civilization-and-A...

    Here are a few reasons to expect our modern techo-industrial civilization to end pretty soon:

    Climate change, pollution, potential food shortage, potential fresh water shortage, political turmoil (including all forms of corrupt leadership, modern warfare, terrorism, nuclear weapons etc.), rapid moral/spiritual decline amongst all humanity, potential shortage of fossil fuels which are the lifeblood of our economy as well as a global economy that has recently seen severe challenges and proven to be rather fragile.

    Even one of those troubles could bring down any civilization. All stacked together, what's the hope? Certainly many civilizations have come and gone before ours. I expect to see major catastrophes and huge turmoil in my lifetime (I'm 31 years old).

    When that author talks about alternative futures, by the way, his idea is that our future hope to let go of our complete over-dependence on technology and machines, and to embrace a more natural, simple style of living - living off the land, in harmony with nature. That makes sense to me, and for some of us, there may be some hope in that.

    Just because I don't see any real hope that our modern civilization will carry on as it is now, doesn't mean I don't see every reason to try to live my life to the best of my ability, as the best person I can be, with the highest standard of moral and spiritual values I'm capable of.
    • kt > Akincana Krishna das April 16, 2010 at 12:14am
      Yes this makes sense to me, I think Lovelock is just saying that the Earth is heating up so quickly. He says that the population is too big, ideally it would be about 1 billion and its 7 billion; just by breathing we are putting in 4 times as much cO2 into the air as all the airlines in the world. Add to this all the pets and all the livestock it rises to 23% of all the CO2 that goes into the air. I think he does say that there are many things that we can do and we must do as much as we can because the situation isn't ideal. I think as LFRV's we certainly are living in harmony, organically and as sustainably as possible with the Earth rather than adding to the destruction. I think there is technology and that can help to raise consciousness, but I don't know much about this.
  • pradtf April 15, 2010 at 5:34pm
    :D :D :D
    yukiko! i can see eden just over the horizon!

    in friendship,
    prad
  • Rawgasm April 15, 2010 at 12:24pm
    woohooooo! smooth sail from here! In favor of extinction of humans. Might witness in my lifetime or might not :)
    • Chad RD > Rawgasm April 16, 2010 at 1:35am
      intelligent, but stupid in how we utilize it
    • kt > Rawgasm April 16, 2010 at 12:39am
      Great point Yukiko, I am optimistic about the future I certainly don't think we're all screwed! We each have to do our bit and I think thats the crucial point when you know how bad it could potentially be if we don't. I don't worry about human survival because like you I am aware that death is inevitable and I think there are lots of things we can do, but future generations will still have to live and survive on the planet, so I am probably thinking of them more.
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