Hi everyone :)
I was approached by Adam with a few great ideas to help improve the community experience and wanted to get your input on the topic, especially from long term members (but not exclusively). Please state how long you have been a member with your comment. Personally I have always been a fan of seeing other members faces in their profiles.
Below Adam has outlined some ideas.....
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"I have been thinking about the issue of flamers and pseudo-profiles. This has obviously presented issues in the past and it does seem likely that it will continue to be a potential problem whilst this forum is in operation, since some people find the forum and its ideas controversial.
As we are aware, there have been situations in the past where frustrations with flamers and suspicions of members have been high, which can result in arguably unnecessary actions being taken against members. Yet because this is a legitimate concern and an understandable reaction to the situation, it does behoove us to find a sustainable solution to the problem.
At present, there do appear to be some interesting members and posts by members which raise eyebrows and questions about why they are here, who they really are and what they want to gain from their experience here.
It seems like a good idea to give people the benefit of the doubt,
whilst also finding a means of monitoring who is on the forum and
ensuring that people are honest about who they are. It seems logical to
suppose that those who have nothing to hide should be happy to put up a
facial picture.
I was wondering whether you have considered introducing a mandatory profile picture for members as a way to avoid the potential for flamers? Ie. a picture which clearly shows someones face, with a regulation that people found to be using false photos (eg. of other members, or celebrities) will have to put up a legitimate photo within so many days or have their profile banned.
A more effective alternative (albeit a potentially more laborious one) may be to do skype 5 minute video call interviews with new members or something. There seem to be a number of moderators on this forum, so it would probably be reasonably managable to distribute this task amongst the moderators.
Another alternative may be to require new members to do a compulsory intro video post to introduce themselves and talk about why there are here and what they hope to get from being a community member.
Just some ideas to throw into the mix. Let me know what you think and whether you have been thinking about any other ideas.
Hope you are well and that you had a good xmas.
Take care
Adam x"
Replies
Hey All
Thanks for contributing to this discussion. I appreciate that the topic is a controversial one and a very emotive personal one for somepeople. There is a clear problem, which we aimed to address with this post;
that there are occasionally people who join this forum who are not here for the
same reasons most of us are. Although they are a very distinct minority, these
people join the community to promote dissent. They are here because they
disagree with the fundamental principles, ideas and goals of this forum, and
wish to cause mischief and promote anxiety, frustration and mistrust.
Most of us I would hope are here to share ideas, to support each other, to help each other to learn and grow in order to reach our goalsand achieve our highest health potential, and to connect with like-minded
people in order to make new long-lasting friendships, whether virtual or physical.
I would hope that we would all therefore want to ensure that this community
remains strong, healthy and harmonious, and that it accurately reflects the positive
purpose and intent of the forum and its owners and members.
On the whole, we have a great community here, and we are fortunate in that we do not see as much of the drama as some other forums. Wehave a strong body of intelligent, supportive and challenging members here and
in this sense, we are very fortunate. One of the reasons that the forum is also
generally so harmonious is because of its effective moderation.
A bit like being a parent, teacher, ship captain or prime minister, moderation is often a thankless task, which involves making decisionsthat are sometimes unappreciated and doing the hard work to make sure that
things run smoothly, so that people just see a slick, seamless appearance. This
is often a thankless task and one which unless we are actually doing the task,
cannot fully appreciate or understand the level of time, energy, emotion and
thought that goes into the job.
I would like to extend my appreciation and gratitude to all of the moderators on this forum, who work tirelessly to ensure our experiencehere at 30bad is what it is, day after day. I am sure that we could all agree
that this place would not be what it is without their hard work, and that this
is an amazing place to be. Thank you for all of your hard work.
The reason I contacted Freelee initially to raise the discussion was to help find solutions to the problems identified, in order tomake the work of all of the moderators just a little bit easier.
There are a number of potential problems that can occur as a result of having ‘flamers’ and pseudo-profiles. Of course these people cancause frustration at times. They may also cause people to start asking
questions that encourage them to doubt whether they are doing the right thing
(especially if they are new), by promoting ideas which are not consistent with
the messages promoted here, or by posing “problems” they claim to have been
experiencing as a result of following the diet.
Moderators can and do take care of these problems if and when they arise, to ensure these people are taken care of as soon as possible.However, at present the strategies used are largely corrective, rather than
preventive. In order to make things as easy as possible for moderators, it
makes sense to not only continue to act correctively, but also to consider new
ideas to act preventatively.
One of the points I made in this discussion is that if we do not act preventatively, and we find ourselves faced with a number ofchallenging flamers on a consistent or frequent basis in the future, moderators
may become hypervigilant and become over-suspicious of people unnecessarily. A
point I made was with regards to one particular member earlier this year. I
would like to clarify that whilst I did disagree with the handling of the
situation at the time eg. The ways in which photos were requested, and the
deletion of the individuals account, I do understand why Harley chose to take
the actions he did at the time. It is a difficult task being a moderator,
trying to weigh up actions to make the best decisions they feel they can at any
given time. I appreciate that Harley believed he was doing the right thing. I
understand that this is not a frequent scenario and in fact was hopefully a unique
situation. Hence the reason I brought this up was to illustrate the point that
even the most diligent moderation is not foolproof when we are only able to act
correctively. It is important that we find realistic solutions that are
sustainable.
The challenge is that no solution will suit everyone. That is why I proposed the consideration of various ideas, to encourage the sharingof potential thoughts about the situation and to find new some positive
solutions. Freelee took this one step further and decided to promote a group
discussion about this, so that we could benefit from the input of the wider
community. I believe this further illustrates the value that Freelee and the
other moderators place on the members of this forum. I hope you all appreciate
how unique an opportunity this is. Many forum owners or moderators would have
implemented solutions without asking for the opinions of their members.
I believe this to have been a very valuable exercise in working together to find the best solution possible for the community. Peoplehave had an opportunity to express their feelings and concerns about the ideas
generated and have in turn offered alternative suggestions and solutions, and
modified other suggestions. The result is that we have hopefully found some new
strategies to try out. I hope that these will enhance the development of the
community and strengthen the forum and promote solidarity amongst us all. I
also hope that this makes the work of the moderators just a little bit easier
on a daily basis.
Of course, it would not be possible to generate a full consensus. We can’t please all of the people all of the time. But we can do thebest we can in a given situation and try to please as many people as is
realistically possible, to ensure that we minimise stress to concerned parties
and maximise on the potential benefits to the community as a whole.
I hope that for those people who are anxious about their privacy and safety that they understand the reasons behind the new solutions wehave generated today, and that they can appreciate that we have attempted to
find a happy compromise – a request for only temporary identity check (whilst
awaiting profile approval) and a capacity to remain anonymous thereafter.
I would like to once again thank Freelee for putting this to the community to provide feedback and solutions and to the people who havecontributed to make this discussion as interesting and constructive as I
believe it has been.
Take care
Adam x
Robbie Gleeson has come to a good conclusion on page 1.
Unfortunately folks its impossible to please everyone and as you can see it's a divided field. I'm glad we worked through it as much as we could as a community though and hopefully you understand our decision. We value everyones feedback or else we wouldn't have started this discussion and just implemented the change. We will trial the following ideas summarised by Adam (which seems very fair)...
1) Post a facial photo holding up the username card - On application only. This can then be changed to any avatar desired once membership has been approved.
2) Continue to allow people to use non-facial photos as avatars (AFTER Process 1 is implemented) but allow ONLY people who appear to be a concern to the moderators be either interviewed by skype, or send a photo with username card by email, to prove authenticity within a fixed time period or risk having their account suspended. UNLESS of course they have provided enough evidence to earn an instant suspension.
There is no need to keep this discussion open any longer. Thanks for your replies :)
P.S - We NEVER delete members who are productive within the community or who post naive replies, its rare we delete anyone or any posts but will not hesitate if there is sufficient evidence and after years of doing it we generally have a 'feel for trolls' for the most part. I must say Prab was not removed due to naive responses although it may have looked that way. I am told by DR that he addressed Prab (via the forum and via PM) on numerous occasions, asking him to post a picture and asking him important questions, only to be ignored by Prab continously. Which would come across as suspicious to any forum adminstrator. All good with Prab now, he is back on and we are open to taking people back if they reapply in earnest.
:)
Sarah Beth, I don't think mocking is necessarily the right word. I haven't seen any evidence of fat members being mocked. I would suggest you are taking it the wrong way and so are you S but it's probably because you are new. Ok maybe there is some mocking about some people out there who are against veganism but that's about it. It won't be happening to members... Im not trying to sound cold but if you are fat, then you are fat and people may say you are fat here but that's the truth right? Just like people say im fit and I have been fat.
I agree that If they say it in a mocking or abusive way it's not fair and please let us know because that's not on. If they are saying it factually then that's the truth right?. The thing is we give solutions here, we have the solution to help you become fit and lean, just a matter of you taking our advice. We welcome people of all sizes and I think if you read the forum more thoroughly you will see this. I know in my heart you are ready to get in shape after being here for a year.
From this quote you made the other day, you seem like a pretty confident person!...
"The Master Cleanse is a load of shiat. Hope we have made that clear. If you eat a decent diet you don't need to shiat your brains out to be healthy."
- it's a good point though!
'S' as you would have seen in the sign up - We have a 'tough love' policy here. We don't mock people we help them get real and take a good hard look at where they're at rather than make them feel comfortable when they are unhealthy. We help people step up and be the best they can be and our method has worked for many on this lifestyle.
'S' I'm suprised you have been 'lurking for a long time' and 'live at the library' but your profile says you haven't read 811? Please grab as soon as you can or else it will be difficult for us to help you on your path. Hopefully you have it too Sarah Beth.
The problem with this thinking is it will chill the discourse. What you post now you may not believe in ten years. It may not be appropriate for your family or career to have some specific thoughts on the internet forever.
If you want to make it a closed forum with ID checks and full names, go for it. You'll have a lot fewer members, though.
Have it be totally open and let people's ideas speak for themselves, with people disclosing pictures and identities as it suits them, you'll have more members and more views. You want to get the word out, right?
My view: Have clear forum policies and enforce them fairly and temperately. Within that people should have confidence they have free speech. If you suspect people here are spamming or making trouble, just link them to a previous thread or other information that responds to their criticism without further engaging. If they raise a new point for the forum you find bothersome, read up on it and have a good discussion. Nothing you devise will work out perfectly because people are involved.
If it were my forum I'd be more concerned about dumb ideas being overly represented rather than critical ideas.
Hey David
Thanks for this suggestion. It is a good idea. Appleman, who is no longer a member, and myself were working onthis last year actually. I know Appleman agreed with Freelee that he
would post this up when it was done but unfortunately I never got around
to finishing writing it. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I was busy
with other things at the time so I kept putting it off.
This is definately something I need to put back on my to-do list for this year. New years resolution: Quit procrastinting andfinish off unfinished business. Thankyou.
Take care
Adam xAs a wise person once said to me
'We are open to freedom of speech, not freedom of screech'
Have clear forum policies and enforce them fairly and temperately.
Yes and that's what we aim to do, this is a measure which will improve everyones experience, whether one realises it or not. You may enjoy the experience now and it's because we are constantly on troll patrol.
The reason we have the amount of participation and hits that we do is largely due to how we run the website. The are other sites that have more members but less participation and hits.
Lana you have totally misunderstood and chosen to react prematurely without trying to get clear what our intentions are (which I thought were obvious). It's funny because we are tying to make the community experience BETTER for all. Pompus, elist? Pft come on.
Well said Adam, I understand why you left but it was definitely a one-off and DR thought it was called for, we are VERY careful about who we suspend.
I have been a member for over a year.
I am a female and I weigh 200lbs. There are frequently posts made mocking fat people. While I know I am overweight because I choose to be, I am not really all that willing to post a picture of my fat face just for someone to A) insult it or B) wonder why I am here.
Hello! I am not sure for how long I've been a member...maybe 9-10 months? Even if English is not my native language, I'd have no problem with doing a skype call or a video, or posting a real picture although I doubt that any of these would help in this issue. Doing so proves accountability but, sadly, anything can be faked these days and I guess that all this hassle would stop some people from joining.
However, I wonder why some of the members have trouble with showing their faces in a real profile picture...would you show a fake picture in a network like Linkedin? why do it here then?
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