By this thread I invite you to explore further the Essence & Purpose & Definition (Meaning & Intention) of meditation.Please share your experience from learning practicing meditation, why and how you do it, and what purpose does meditation have in your life.
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...to add some..., I have also learned more and more to appreciate listening to complete SILENCE, then, I can actually hear very clearly the mental- and other noise, which are present in my head, and the whole body and mind...:-)
I experience frequently returning periods, when my mind and body intensivelly CRAVE to be in SILENCE, that is in a silent environment and conditions away from any enervating noise, for the purpose of whatever it needs to do, most probably to heal and recover me more and further...
Also, you are so right, it is better to leave sounds and music which result in uneasiness and unpleasent sensations - irritation, fear, anger, guilt, stress, etc...
However, it seems that it as well may function quite really irrationaly... I have experience from lisstening of "Holy Spirit and Angeles" derived sound of music and lyrics, which has really affected me in both ways at once, in one way, it has brought up all the "dark" stuff to surface of my mind (emotions of fear, anger, etc)(... - to be exposed (in Light) for resolution maybe...) in making me feel at unease and causing in some resistance, while in the end, over a longer period, that sound has unknowingly-silently-gently(behind my back) completely "overtaken-overhelmed" me by it's Light (force) channeled via it's vibration/frequency/energy and it's lyrics message and meaning...
- That is, the total effect off it, was MORE increase of Light and less remained of "dark" stuff... Shortly, the lesson is, that Light, while dealing with dark thoughts exposure and undoing, cause in natural resistance of the ego, as it is been more and more exposed and dissolved layer after layer, - similarly as with body's healing and detoxification process, where while toxins are expelled I may experience various degrees of unease and pain (as all toxic waste must sooner or later be pulled out and enter the blood and other circulation system prior final elimination from the system) etc...
However, the end result (of a completed healing cycle, of a longer healing process) is always POSITIVE and benefiacial, despite the uneasy and paifull withdrawal and detox symptoms of the healing behind...
Anyway, me too, I CHOOSE to listen to the sound which is uplifting, trance-dental...;-), specially it has helped me to "withstand" at times the uneasiness and "pain" from some healing symptoms and low moods, etc...
I can recognize the "stimulation" effect in there too, which may be "suppressive" (=obstruction causing) to healing, however I think it is always way better option than using foods or drugs as remedies to suppress or stimulate body-mind...
Re "eyes-closed"..., allowing body to keep eyes closed is very beneficial, as it increases protection from enervation causing factors and influencies dramatically...
- it is why most meditation is done eyes closed...
...closed eyes help us to reach even deeper states and effects of healing of both body and mind.
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"FEAR: the only times when i run into the light, like intensive praying and meditation and talking to someone like "'Jesus'" (if we are all integrating multiple (illusionary, story-based) personalities from various time / space /dimensions, one of "mine" tends to hiss) is when i felt enormously threatened by "evil" of the dark dualistic type. so going toward the light, at least for me, has most successfully been propelled by fear. NEUTRAL / STAND STILL: love. kindness. attempting to be unconditional even if i am not 'truth' and therefore cannot yet express true unconditional love. these are somewhat achievable much of the time by standing still from the light. MOTIVATED BY COMPASSION: one's capacity to truly help and give probably would be greatly accelerated / increased by something such as intense devotion and connection with the light, on the path to and finally arriving at the state of infinite consciousness perspective at all times. i feel that people often move into the light due to a more fear-based catalyst. even the historic Buddha, as the story goes, wanted to end suffering, which in my opinion, is a slightly more fear-based catalyst (though some could say it was love-based because wanted to find the end of suffering to help all)..., anyway, these were just some words to bring up another interesting aspect which is WHY people begin to go into the light....,...to simplify, based on love or fear?"
---I understand..., as long as my mind is non-whole, divided, split, confused..., it is natural that I feel confusion, but as long as I remember to use a state of LET GO and ALLOWANCE, all bits and peaces will fall in to their right place where they belong... My use of inner intuition and true instincts - the inner voice, will guide me gently and gradually towards the right direction as intended, understanding that the course may flow seemingly in rounds, cycles, orbits, phases, stages, levels, and in degrees of depth and intensity, and in peaks and lows..., and I remember, that I have truly only ONE choice I can make, which is either I choose with ego or without it...
---The "no-mind" state may help me on this journey. Fear is just a side-effect derived and maintained by the ego. As soon as the Light is switched on, and the pull initiated, fear will decline and weaken in strength and in effect, and be replaced by the more expanding Light, Love and Joy, naturally. Fear and true Love cannot coexist together at the same time, neither ego and true Love.
AMEN
....
...over and out, for now!
:-D
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"...lack of light must affect people in different ways. anger, depression, misdirection, gloom, sadness. and then there is the either desire to go into or away from, or stay still ... from the light. so as you wrote above, just in love now, how did u decide to fill yourself with light? did you or have you felt resistant to this? wanting to stay in the dark? or... i believe that you said that once you have a real taste for the light, you don't to go back."
---Yes, as long as ego dominates the mind, in maintaining split, divided, confused, insane, non-whole, etc state, the resistance to healing and restoration of wholeness continue, cause ego is afraid to be undone, unlearned and dissolved (by/into Light)... As soon as the pull is switched on, and Light starts consuming the mind, the desire to be filled with Light to experience its effects Light increases dramatically too..., while the resistance to Light decreases at the same time..., - this is interrelated process of undoing and unlearning, the more we unlearn and undo our ego, the more we crave for Light, also the more we are filled with Light, the more we radiate, extend, share and want to give it away, which as a result makes it grow even further and stronger, as we experience more Light...
2) *"...this is the simple question that ALWAYS comes back to me. it has happened again and again and again. if you go into the light, absorb more light, what about things, moods, expressions that are based around "lack of light." for instance: sad music, wearing lots of black-- can you be a super happy goth? i would not at all label myself as that outwardly, but somewhat inwardly. in my "false" perception of my "self" with "my story" and "personality" and "preferences." once you go into the light, can you listen to music with any depressing lyrics? i guess what i'm saying is, part of what i have struggled with for a while is the feeling that by bringing more light into my being, i am going to cut off experiences of the "darker" duality. connecting to whatever that means. and this is what i have always aesthetically loved. dunno why. it also always returns to beauty. DARK BEAUTY not only light beauty. at the same time, i have experienced so much agony in the past few years that i'm feeling more available to give up that dark experience. like having to get it out of the system till can't take any more.
---It is a gradual, cyclic process, continuing in phases, stages, rounds and degrees of intensity and depth, etc..., which means that while ego is continuously questioned and exposed, the ego identities, roles, games, dramas, change in shape and form over time, however the substantial core within is still same unchanged - the same old ego, no matter the various shapes, forms and degrees of domination it displays... Which means also, that preferences and choice of specifics may change over the course, such as taste for various things, habits, idols, beliefs, concepts, etc with and all the bits and peaces which make up the blown up story - the grand master curriculum of an insignificant ego... The difference is, that some choices and tools maximize the degree of our pain and suffering, while other minimize, for instance, some choices and tools do serve and support better our learning and practicing of "no-mind" meditation, while other choices and tools do not... The main thing, is to identify those choices and tools which promote our healing most, and the use of which we may want to maximize further..., while at the same time, we must also identify those choices and tools which block and obstruct our healing, and the use of which, we may want to minimize more... Ultimately, the terms "darkness" versus "Light" are only symbols, tools and steppingstones to representing, describe and transform our current state..., that is, we may say - the ego hides itself in the darkness of our mind, and by switching on the Light, darkness will dissolve away, similarly, we may express, that our body develop disease, as a cause from our misuse of it, so, in order for it to heal with firstly must stop misusing body, and secondly to allow it to heal and recover itself, - now we come to "disease" versus "health", which may correspond to "light" versus "darkness", however if you look closer, you will see, that this distinction is only relative depending on what meaning we ascribe to define these terms, for example "disease" is both "negative", because it is experienced as pain and suffering, and "positive", as it is a necessary and required part and function of our body to resolve the underlying cause to it, which means that "disease" is actually really positive, and the only way for our body to resolve the accumulated unresolved problem behind, to be able to heal and recover to original whole balanced state of perfect health as intended by Nature.... "Darkness", can be used to symbolize a "black-hole" for the release the ego layers, and by that help us to undo and unlearn it, step by step, layer after layer... Then, the more of the ego is absorbed and sucked in by the dark "black-hole", the more of the available space is created for the Light to enter instead...:-)
---Also, "Light" may mean a "White light as a white color", or it also may mean "Light as an Energy", where both may sustain and feed-nourish us in various ways... In my own experience, "Light" represents these two aspects, - first it is as Light derived from the sun while Sungazing - where it really may mean both -a Light as a White Color and a Light as an Energy, which body may absorb and sustain upon, and which also may heal the mind and body, and improve further the ability to experience the state of "no-mind", etc..., Or, a Light may also mean something completely undefinable and impossible to express in words, a type of Light which I may experience while falling in to more deep state of "no-mind" during my meditation, and which may not be defined by any color, form, shape, or other property, quality or symbol of identification...,...- the closest description may point towards the "I AM" experience, meaning the absence from any attachment or identification to anything whatsoever..., - shortly it is only experienced, but not defined...:-)
3) *"...what is beyond duality? i would assume that whatever this state is, does have much more to do with love and light and therefore non-dual experience and core essence could relate more to "positivity" ;; this is about expression, not about judgment. i would also assume that non-duality would not judge dark as being less than light. but that non-duality is more "light." does this make sense? i am only using cognition and patterns to make such a statement. and that the "light" definitely feels peace and calming. i get upset because i feel as if by fully going into the light, the experience of darkness will become inaccessible. that everything will become squeaky sunshine beach boys. yes, the beach boys. ahh. right now, it would drive me insane to listen to music that primarily resonated so much happy-upper as the beach boys."
---Yes, you are on a right track here...;-)... Ultimately, I think no words can express that what is beyond duality..., as also, love and light are symbols, thought forms, tools, steppingstones, etc..., we may use at our current present level of thought and state of our mind, which we experience right NOW...;-)
---Yes, "non-duality" is a state of abstinence from any judgment whatsoever, valid for both "darkness" as well as "Light", as these are symbols non-existent at that "level" (realm), ...Light IS, only if darkness is, as these are dual in their essence... However, to describe something which is beyond the possibility of description as being beyond the duality, for this purpose, our mind while being in its current state, may use "Light" as an expression of "Absolute", similarly to our present understanding of G..., who/what IS Absolute, beyond "duality" and beyond even "non-duality", etc...
---BTW, I enjoy the sound of deep "dark" house and "dark" rhythmic drum music, besides the slightly less dark trance music, or even more less "dark" classical music... I often sing the "darkest of the dark"- the deepest of the deep OM sound vibration I am able to during my meditation in a "dark" room and state of complete "darkness" penetrated by the beam of "En-Light-enment"...;-)
I am very glad of your sincere call and commitment to our one purpose to continue to explore and question our mind and it's beliefs further and deeper...;-)
Here is what I am guided to say now - just thoughts (not answers, answers are yours)...:-)
=====
PART III
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"CURIOSITY! simply being curious. and waiting to explore, through meditation; i have no answers! only questions!...any ideas?...by the way, i'm just aimlessly writing, the questions about how to overcome resistance of the light is very relevant to me, and i'd Love some input! this is more just wondering wanderings."
---YES, our natural call for answers..., this is what it is about..., and why we are really here, - to explore our mind..., - it is about being curious and asking questions and questioning of our beliefs and concepts..., if we resist and do not (want/dare) to question and ask these questions, then we will not know nor understand what the real obstacles are, which block our awareness, and how these obstacles can be removed... To question our ego, is the best thing we can do (on this level of thought, that is...;-)
2) *"...EGO - desire to get 'enlightened' for the sake of the ego feeling "accomplished...""
---This is a common trap set up by the ego...:-)..., we must remain alert and attentive to question our belief-system and expose the ego at every step..., but in a gentle and forgiving manner..., we cannot battle or kill the ego by enforcing and war, as that is exactly what the ego wants and expects..., which means that any enforcement will only cause in even more and stronger resistance... So, instead we forgive us, for what we have not done, and instead gently not to choose with the ego..., As soon as we surrender and accept the stillness and presence of our being in the now (by using our meditative "no-mind" state), we become more receptive to the "other/alternative" inner voice present and ready to use from withing, which will gently help and guide as to choose right...
3) *"...vs. beyond EGO - desire,....,...beings of great light can do great things for those suffering, in pain, in poverty, in depression, in sadness, in DESPAIR, in DESPERATION in this world]"
---Yes, beyond the ego desire..., - an inner call, a built in function within our deep mind, which switched/turned on initiates our healing process of/within our mind, towards completion of our wholeness, and oneness with source (G..) (as G.. intends...;-) During our healing process, we become called (naturally, instinctively) to serve the "other" (=our brother/sister), by extending and giving away and sharing of our Light and Love (both are the effects from ongoing healing process), which in turn expands and reinforces our experience (and the mass) of Light and Love making it to expand, which then further increases and intensifies our healing and the effects from it (Light and Love) even more...:-) ...- until, there is no one left to save..., that is, until the complete restoration of our mind as whole united one...:-)
4)*"..vs. innate need [some sort of pull toward the light, a need to return to one's natural state]"
---Exactly, that is a natural pull, which initiates and maintains healing process of our mind, after the switch-on function is activated, which really is a natural answer to our inner present call for true Love and Oneness (seemingly covered up locked in by the ego, deep within our split divided confused distorted mind...:-)
5) *"...which could be other elements,...a feeling of SHOULD [okay, so "God" wants all beings to go into the Light. one should...]....vs. a feeling of WANT FOR SAKE OF ALL [okay, so "God" wants all beings to go into the Light. one could want to do this for the benefit of the universe...]
---Yes, a sort of a natural pull towards reestablishment of the state of whole and one mind, similarly as in Nature, where all living organisms, including our body, (and even inorganic matter), seem naturally gravitate (being pulled) back towards restoration of whole balanced state as originally intended (by Nature).., and yes, it is very likely that G.., or the source, wills and waits for our return back..., as it seems, that switch and pull functionality are both a direct effect orchestrated and implanted by G..'s as being intended...:-)
6) *"...fear, ego, should: all of them seem like trappings, yet all the same time catalysts to begin a pursuit of light. i feel like i respond to many of them, some that are more 'altruistic' and some that are 'trappings.'...,...how does one reach a place of pure intent based on true love and giving? it is not enforceable... or manipulative in oneself. it can perhaps be created by an attitude or choice, or.
---pursuit of light - is natural and instinctive..., we reach a place of pure intent based on true love and - giving, naturally and instinctively... Use of force is pointless and counterproductive, as it only reinforces resistance and prolongs suffering, entrapment within the ego game and drama, and the remained confused distorted split mind, only delaying postponing the completion of our release and healing...
---Gentle forgiveness, while watching and training our mind, and practicing of "no-mind" state, as much and as often as possible, will ignite the switch and initiate the pull towards the source...
When I practice meditations I try to communicate with my body and soul. I ask questions which I search answers for (dont know whether grammatically the sentence is good). I do meditations to become calm, harmonious, even energised.
I do Silva meditations, I started to practice meditations maybe some year ago and I had great difficulties to still my mind. So I bought those binaural beats together with the Silva course that helped me to get to the alpha (deeper) level. But soon I would like to try something deeper, more spiritual, but dont know nothing about other types of meditations. I do hypnose-like meditations ie. during my meditation I get rid of negative emotions (fear), negative qualities (pride, ego), thoughts (I am so and so...) to become a better person.
I have experience from "sucking-in" the Light, in to my whole Mind-body, it is how I actually have at last overcome the fear and resistance of "loosing" mind = loosing ego...
...instead, I just spontaneously, effortlessly, want to experience more and more being in the state of "no-mind", free from the ego thoughts system and identities, and all attachments, for short periods at least, the more often and the more lasting the better the feeling...:-)
I did much sungazing, wearing white clothes and was constantly craving for Light and white colors, all of the time...
...interesting, that I felt prior to that, very very vastly dark inside me, empty darkness, no images, but completely dark..., which caused me to crave for Light, much Light, all kind of Light, - sunlight, etc... to fill that empty dark hole within me with the Light... Its like, I replaced the darkness with Light inside me, - within my body and within mind, sucking-absorbing Light from "outside" into both...
BTW, It all started at that time with my first "21-days initiation process", - Living on Light, mind-over-matter process to initiate and complete a mind-shift, and to release fears and false-beliefs, etc...
Interesting, how things work, in reversals, and inter-changes...
...I want to try out the black-hole method too..., and see how it goes...
Thank you for sharing of your investigation, very insightful and informative...!
I need some time to absorb and reflect over bits and peaces and the whole, and come back to you...
Shortly for now...,
...the life-energy of your body is quite scientific, no worry of a mystery..., me neither believe nor follow shamanism, which-craft, medicinemen or aliens...;-)
Similarly, as the retracing of the accumulated memory/curriculum for releasing and resolving it, is no mystery, only a sane psychology and physiology explained and applied...
The fear and resistance you experience against loosing the "self" and dissolving it into Oneness, is really a false-beliefs based, - a conspiracy of the ego...:-)
...as the "self" is the "ego" with its made up identities and lifestories, which in reality are NOT the real true "You", and are not to be afraid of to loose...
... - because only by loosing the self (the ego), only after that, you will be able to experience true Love and your (oneness) with your true source (G...) and your real state of who you really are...
- Therefore, there is NOTHING to be afraid of really... Only the process of awakening itself may be experienced as a little scary..., as your mind has been asleep and forgotten and confused about its true nature and essence for seemingly so long time about what it truly is...
... - I promise, as soon as you get a taste or the feeling of who you really truly are, then all of your "fear" and resistance will be effortlessly blown away without any trace of them, no more fear, maybe some portion of resistance thou...:-) As ego do not give up that easy, without a battle for its survival, it will do all in its power to delay and prolong your state of confusion and distortion (and suffering), while protecting its own preservation with excuses and making up of fear, doubt, anger, guilt, etc - which all are just illusions as being untrue and false, while in a state of you true being...
Various methods all use some sort of steps, and levels, and maps, to guide you slowly and gently through awakening, as only awakening (realization) phase seems scary...
... - similarly to like when you awaken from a scary untrue dream while sleeping, you feel scary for a short moment, but then instantly realize that you only were dreaming and now after you have awakened you feel again safe and yourself again...
re.: breathing, and energy..., - the ONLY ONE thing you really need is just to surrender to your body's true instincts, as soon as you have "learned" doing that, you will NATURALLY and with no effort fall in line with your body's inner wisdom and intelligence - its own built-in ability - to do ALL things right, - right breathing, right feasting, right relaxing and right resting, and not least right healing and right recovery...
...people, while still "non-instinctive" and who are blocked or blocking-suppressing-ignoring-resisting their senses and true instincts, these people usually need a Guru or a book or assistance and help intervention (from doctors, gurus etc) combined with preplanned enforced upon body action and plan, etc in order to do natural things in a right way...
...but as soon, as you surrender and trust your body's own intelligent ability completely 100%, all becomes very easy, effortless and natural without any need for guru or guide or doctor...
It is therefore said: "the Guru is in you..."...:-)
ooops! a short jump in became a long lasting gliding...
... - as I said, let me come back to you later with further thoughts...:-)
I have read some about saibaba from a book, he is manifesting things, isn't he...?
If you don't mind tell more later what you have learned about his meditation, ok? Really interesting to hear more about that...;-)
...ahaa, - so maum means mind..., in what language? Is it from India too?
All these levels...:)...
... - well, actually, a sort of a safety net might be good to have, at least for some, scary one...:-)...- who still have deep unresolved fears and doubts present and hidden within their minds, and most of us still have...:-)
I had once a fear to "loose" my mind...:-D, which is ridiculous really, if you look at this more closely..., as mind is ALL there is...:-) (...- thoughts never leaving their source...:-D)
Thank you alot for explaining it all so well, it is not too easy to express seemingly complicated things in a "simple" way in easy to understand words and in short...:-) , specially because all the wisdom and insight teachings from east seem so secretive and distorted in overcomplication, maybe to make up the demand for a "smart" translator services...?..:-)
You mentioned earlier that you want to work with your heart, to expand it..., - explain...
Are you familiar with chakra/kundalini/prana yoga...? or pranayama/pranic-breathing...?
These tools can be good complementary steppingstones at times..., however I don't like the unneeded (over)complication of things..., as truth is never complicated in its essence..., only translating is...:-)
Do you know anything about advaita vedanta and its non-dualism philosophy...?
...Just bring it all out, don't hold back anything..., we are listening very closely...;-)
...learning by teaching... and ...teaching by learning..., this is how it is really done...:-) isn't it...?...;-)
..."watch the "movie" of my life and feel it getting "sucked" into the black hole.."
...ha ha..., very funny...:D
Specially, I like the "sucked" in/out and the "black-hole" expession, it's like undergoing of a major vacuum-cleaning procedure, to get rid of all the waste accumulated...:)
You have awaked interest in me to explore further the possibilities with this "maum-meditation", I want to use it too...
Is there any audio CD teaching/explaining the maum meditation, available to purchase (or download...;)...?
I prefer to listen instead of reading, if possible... As I developed allergy towards reading thick textures books, caused by previously life-long heavy misuse and addiction to reading books...
Latest book I read (which IS one of my favorites) is still under the process of "reading" and absor btion, I just stumbled at one meaning, from which I am seemingly unable to move forward..., that is I am still chewing on that one meaning sentence, now it already has passed more than one year or so since I started...
Therefore, I rather listen...:)
I feel a great need for a maum meditation treatment...:D... now!
....as I suffer at times under severe perceptional problems ("distorted perception syndrom/symptom"...?...:), causing me to belive that the world with all in it which I see and experience is "real"...:D
At times, I still enjoy watching my "life" movie, but the projector's glas has become so darkened and dirty, that I'm almost blind from watching all these made up images from the screen...:)
Please describe step by step the process of "maum meditation", what does "maum" mean...?
"Silence meditation" ...? Is it some formal practice?
I use the term expression "stillness" as my own description of the meditation I practice.
"Stillness" means being completely still, that is, - still in mind, - no thoughts flow, no thinking, no mental noise, no identification, no attachement, etc... nothing left which can disturbe the stillness of/within mind. When mind becomes still it stops "projecting" and "perceiving", all content of mind dissolves away in to "nothing", as it never was, including time or space, as these too are the result of projection-perception-reflection-experience
The purpose of meditation is undoing of the ego, and restoring of a state of wholeness and oneness with G...
...also, to feel good and at peace, as meditation can develop into addictive habit...:D
What purpose are you looking for in your meditation?
I don't know about "jyoti meditation", - please describe and elaborate further...
Replies
I experience frequently returning periods, when my mind and body intensivelly CRAVE to be in SILENCE, that is in a silent environment and conditions away from any enervating noise, for the purpose of whatever it needs to do, most probably to heal and recover me more and further...
Also, you are so right, it is better to leave sounds and music which result in uneasiness and unpleasent sensations - irritation, fear, anger, guilt, stress, etc...
However, it seems that it as well may function quite really irrationaly... I have experience from lisstening of "Holy Spirit and Angeles" derived sound of music and lyrics, which has really affected me in both ways at once, in one way, it has brought up all the "dark" stuff to surface of my mind (emotions of fear, anger, etc)(... - to be exposed (in Light) for resolution maybe...) in making me feel at unease and causing in some resistance, while in the end, over a longer period, that sound has unknowingly-silently-gently(behind my back) completely "overtaken-overhelmed" me by it's Light (force) channeled via it's vibration/frequency/energy and it's lyrics message and meaning...
- That is, the total effect off it, was MORE increase of Light and less remained of "dark" stuff... Shortly, the lesson is, that Light, while dealing with dark thoughts exposure and undoing, cause in natural resistance of the ego, as it is been more and more exposed and dissolved layer after layer, - similarly as with body's healing and detoxification process, where while toxins are expelled I may experience various degrees of unease and pain (as all toxic waste must sooner or later be pulled out and enter the blood and other circulation system prior final elimination from the system) etc...
However, the end result (of a completed healing cycle, of a longer healing process) is always POSITIVE and benefiacial, despite the uneasy and paifull withdrawal and detox symptoms of the healing behind...
Anyway, me too, I CHOOSE to listen to the sound which is uplifting, trance-dental...;-), specially it has helped me to "withstand" at times the uneasiness and "pain" from some healing symptoms and low moods, etc...
I can recognize the "stimulation" effect in there too, which may be "suppressive" (=obstruction causing) to healing, however I think it is always way better option than using foods or drugs as remedies to suppress or stimulate body-mind...
Re "eyes-closed"..., allowing body to keep eyes closed is very beneficial, as it increases protection from enervation causing factors and influencies dramatically...
- it is why most meditation is done eyes closed...
...closed eyes help us to reach even deeper states and effects of healing of both body and mind.
:-)
PART II
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"FEAR: the only times when i run into the light, like intensive praying and meditation and talking to someone like "'Jesus'" (if we are all integrating multiple (illusionary, story-based) personalities from various time / space /dimensions, one of "mine" tends to hiss) is when i felt enormously threatened by "evil" of the dark dualistic type. so going toward the light, at least for me, has most successfully been propelled by fear. NEUTRAL / STAND STILL: love. kindness. attempting to be unconditional even if i am not 'truth' and therefore cannot yet express true unconditional love. these are somewhat achievable much of the time by standing still from the light. MOTIVATED BY COMPASSION: one's capacity to truly help and give probably would be greatly accelerated / increased by something such as intense devotion and connection with the light, on the path to and finally arriving at the state of infinite consciousness perspective at all times. i feel that people often move into the light due to a more fear-based catalyst. even the historic Buddha, as the story goes, wanted to end suffering, which in my opinion, is a slightly more fear-based catalyst (though some could say it was love-based because wanted to find the end of suffering to help all)..., anyway, these were just some words to bring up another interesting aspect which is WHY people begin to go into the light....,...to simplify, based on love or fear?"
---I understand..., as long as my mind is non-whole, divided, split, confused..., it is natural that I feel confusion, but as long as I remember to use a state of LET GO and ALLOWANCE, all bits and peaces will fall in to their right place where they belong... My use of inner intuition and true instincts - the inner voice, will guide me gently and gradually towards the right direction as intended, understanding that the course may flow seemingly in rounds, cycles, orbits, phases, stages, levels, and in degrees of depth and intensity, and in peaks and lows..., and I remember, that I have truly only ONE choice I can make, which is either I choose with ego or without it...
---The "no-mind" state may help me on this journey. Fear is just a side-effect derived and maintained by the ego. As soon as the Light is switched on, and the pull initiated, fear will decline and weaken in strength and in effect, and be replaced by the more expanding Light, Love and Joy, naturally. Fear and true Love cannot coexist together at the same time, neither ego and true Love.
AMEN
....
...over and out, for now!
:-D
PART I
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"...lack of light must affect people in different ways. anger, depression, misdirection, gloom, sadness. and then there is the either desire to go into or away from, or stay still ... from the light. so as you wrote above, just in love now, how did u decide to fill yourself with light? did you or have you felt resistant to this? wanting to stay in the dark? or... i believe that you said that once you have a real taste for the light, you don't to go back."
---Yes, as long as ego dominates the mind, in maintaining split, divided, confused, insane, non-whole, etc state, the resistance to healing and restoration of wholeness continue, cause ego is afraid to be undone, unlearned and dissolved (by/into Light)... As soon as the pull is switched on, and Light starts consuming the mind, the desire to be filled with Light to experience its effects Light increases dramatically too..., while the resistance to Light decreases at the same time..., - this is interrelated process of undoing and unlearning, the more we unlearn and undo our ego, the more we crave for Light, also the more we are filled with Light, the more we radiate, extend, share and want to give it away, which as a result makes it grow even further and stronger, as we experience more Light...
2) *"...this is the simple question that ALWAYS comes back to me. it has happened again and again and again. if you go into the light, absorb more light, what about things, moods, expressions that are based around "lack of light." for instance: sad music, wearing lots of black-- can you be a super happy goth? i would not at all label myself as that outwardly, but somewhat inwardly. in my "false" perception of my "self" with "my story" and "personality" and "preferences." once you go into the light, can you listen to music with any depressing lyrics? i guess what i'm saying is, part of what i have struggled with for a while is the feeling that by bringing more light into my being, i am going to cut off experiences of the "darker" duality. connecting to whatever that means. and this is what i have always aesthetically loved. dunno why. it also always returns to beauty. DARK BEAUTY not only light beauty. at the same time, i have experienced so much agony in the past few years that i'm feeling more available to give up that dark experience. like having to get it out of the system till can't take any more.
---It is a gradual, cyclic process, continuing in phases, stages, rounds and degrees of intensity and depth, etc..., which means that while ego is continuously questioned and exposed, the ego identities, roles, games, dramas, change in shape and form over time, however the substantial core within is still same unchanged - the same old ego, no matter the various shapes, forms and degrees of domination it displays... Which means also, that preferences and choice of specifics may change over the course, such as taste for various things, habits, idols, beliefs, concepts, etc with and all the bits and peaces which make up the blown up story - the grand master curriculum of an insignificant ego... The difference is, that some choices and tools maximize the degree of our pain and suffering, while other minimize, for instance, some choices and tools do serve and support better our learning and practicing of "no-mind" meditation, while other choices and tools do not... The main thing, is to identify those choices and tools which promote our healing most, and the use of which we may want to maximize further..., while at the same time, we must also identify those choices and tools which block and obstruct our healing, and the use of which, we may want to minimize more... Ultimately, the terms "darkness" versus "Light" are only symbols, tools and steppingstones to representing, describe and transform our current state..., that is, we may say - the ego hides itself in the darkness of our mind, and by switching on the Light, darkness will dissolve away, similarly, we may express, that our body develop disease, as a cause from our misuse of it, so, in order for it to heal with firstly must stop misusing body, and secondly to allow it to heal and recover itself, - now we come to "disease" versus "health", which may correspond to "light" versus "darkness", however if you look closer, you will see, that this distinction is only relative depending on what meaning we ascribe to define these terms, for example "disease" is both "negative", because it is experienced as pain and suffering, and "positive", as it is a necessary and required part and function of our body to resolve the underlying cause to it, which means that "disease" is actually really positive, and the only way for our body to resolve the accumulated unresolved problem behind, to be able to heal and recover to original whole balanced state of perfect health as intended by Nature.... "Darkness", can be used to symbolize a "black-hole" for the release the ego layers, and by that help us to undo and unlearn it, step by step, layer after layer... Then, the more of the ego is absorbed and sucked in by the dark "black-hole", the more of the available space is created for the Light to enter instead...:-)
---Also, "Light" may mean a "White light as a white color", or it also may mean "Light as an Energy", where both may sustain and feed-nourish us in various ways... In my own experience, "Light" represents these two aspects, - first it is as Light derived from the sun while Sungazing - where it really may mean both -a Light as a White Color and a Light as an Energy, which body may absorb and sustain upon, and which also may heal the mind and body, and improve further the ability to experience the state of "no-mind", etc..., Or, a Light may also mean something completely undefinable and impossible to express in words, a type of Light which I may experience while falling in to more deep state of "no-mind" during my meditation, and which may not be defined by any color, form, shape, or other property, quality or symbol of identification...,...- the closest description may point towards the "I AM" experience, meaning the absence from any attachment or identification to anything whatsoever..., - shortly it is only experienced, but not defined...:-)
3) *"...what is beyond duality? i would assume that whatever this state is, does have much more to do with love and light and therefore non-dual experience and core essence could relate more to "positivity" ;; this is about expression, not about judgment. i would also assume that non-duality would not judge dark as being less than light. but that non-duality is more "light." does this make sense? i am only using cognition and patterns to make such a statement. and that the "light" definitely feels peace and calming. i get upset because i feel as if by fully going into the light, the experience of darkness will become inaccessible. that everything will become squeaky sunshine beach boys. yes, the beach boys. ahh. right now, it would drive me insane to listen to music that primarily resonated so much happy-upper as the beach boys."
---Yes, you are on a right track here...;-)... Ultimately, I think no words can express that what is beyond duality..., as also, love and light are symbols, thought forms, tools, steppingstones, etc..., we may use at our current present level of thought and state of our mind, which we experience right NOW...;-)
---Yes, "non-duality" is a state of abstinence from any judgment whatsoever, valid for both "darkness" as well as "Light", as these are symbols non-existent at that "level" (realm), ...Light IS, only if darkness is, as these are dual in their essence... However, to describe something which is beyond the possibility of description as being beyond the duality, for this purpose, our mind while being in its current state, may use "Light" as an expression of "Absolute", similarly to our present understanding of G..., who/what IS Absolute, beyond "duality" and beyond even "non-duality", etc...
---BTW, I enjoy the sound of deep "dark" house and "dark" rhythmic drum music, besides the slightly less dark trance music, or even more less "dark" classical music... I often sing the "darkest of the dark"- the deepest of the deep OM sound vibration I am able to during my meditation in a "dark" room and state of complete "darkness" penetrated by the beam of "En-Light-enment"...;-)
AAAAAUUUUUMMMMM....
:-D
I am very glad of your sincere call and commitment to our one purpose to continue to explore and question our mind and it's beliefs further and deeper...;-)
Here is what I am guided to say now - just thoughts (not answers, answers are yours)...:-)
=====
PART III
2010-05-13
- your thoughts (*)
- my thoughts (---)
1) *"CURIOSITY! simply being curious. and waiting to explore, through meditation; i have no answers! only questions!...any ideas?...by the way, i'm just aimlessly writing, the questions about how to overcome resistance of the light is very relevant to me, and i'd Love some input! this is more just wondering wanderings."
---YES, our natural call for answers..., this is what it is about..., and why we are really here, - to explore our mind..., - it is about being curious and asking questions and questioning of our beliefs and concepts..., if we resist and do not (want/dare) to question and ask these questions, then we will not know nor understand what the real obstacles are, which block our awareness, and how these obstacles can be removed... To question our ego, is the best thing we can do (on this level of thought, that is...;-)
2) *"...EGO - desire to get 'enlightened' for the sake of the ego feeling "accomplished...""
---This is a common trap set up by the ego...:-)..., we must remain alert and attentive to question our belief-system and expose the ego at every step..., but in a gentle and forgiving manner..., we cannot battle or kill the ego by enforcing and war, as that is exactly what the ego wants and expects..., which means that any enforcement will only cause in even more and stronger resistance... So, instead we forgive us, for what we have not done, and instead gently not to choose with the ego..., As soon as we surrender and accept the stillness and presence of our being in the now (by using our meditative "no-mind" state), we become more receptive to the "other/alternative" inner voice present and ready to use from withing, which will gently help and guide as to choose right...
3) *"...vs. beyond EGO - desire,....,...beings of great light can do great things for those suffering, in pain, in poverty, in depression, in sadness, in DESPAIR, in DESPERATION in this world]"
---Yes, beyond the ego desire..., - an inner call, a built in function within our deep mind, which switched/turned on initiates our healing process of/within our mind, towards completion of our wholeness, and oneness with source (G..) (as G.. intends...;-) During our healing process, we become called (naturally, instinctively) to serve the "other" (=our brother/sister), by extending and giving away and sharing of our Light and Love (both are the effects from ongoing healing process), which in turn expands and reinforces our experience (and the mass) of Light and Love making it to expand, which then further increases and intensifies our healing and the effects from it (Light and Love) even more...:-) ...- until, there is no one left to save..., that is, until the complete restoration of our mind as whole united one...:-)
4)*"..vs. innate need [some sort of pull toward the light, a need to return to one's natural state]"
---Exactly, that is a natural pull, which initiates and maintains healing process of our mind, after the switch-on function is activated, which really is a natural answer to our inner present call for true Love and Oneness (seemingly covered up locked in by the ego, deep within our split divided confused distorted mind...:-)
5) *"...which could be other elements,...a feeling of SHOULD [okay, so "God" wants all beings to go into the Light. one should...]....vs. a feeling of WANT FOR SAKE OF ALL [okay, so "God" wants all beings to go into the Light. one could want to do this for the benefit of the universe...]
---Yes, a sort of a natural pull towards reestablishment of the state of whole and one mind, similarly as in Nature, where all living organisms, including our body, (and even inorganic matter), seem naturally gravitate (being pulled) back towards restoration of whole balanced state as originally intended (by Nature).., and yes, it is very likely that G.., or the source, wills and waits for our return back..., as it seems, that switch and pull functionality are both a direct effect orchestrated and implanted by G..'s as being intended...:-)
6) *"...fear, ego, should: all of them seem like trappings, yet all the same time catalysts to begin a pursuit of light. i feel like i respond to many of them, some that are more 'altruistic' and some that are 'trappings.'...,...how does one reach a place of pure intent based on true love and giving? it is not enforceable... or manipulative in oneself. it can perhaps be created by an attitude or choice, or.
---pursuit of light - is natural and instinctive..., we reach a place of pure intent based on true love and - giving, naturally and instinctively... Use of force is pointless and counterproductive, as it only reinforces resistance and prolongs suffering, entrapment within the ego game and drama, and the remained confused distorted split mind, only delaying postponing the completion of our release and healing...
---Gentle forgiveness, while watching and training our mind, and practicing of "no-mind" state, as much and as often as possible, will ignite the switch and initiate the pull towards the source...
;-)
I do Silva meditations, I started to practice meditations maybe some year ago and I had great difficulties to still my mind. So I bought those binaural beats together with the Silva course that helped me to get to the alpha (deeper) level. But soon I would like to try something deeper, more spiritual, but dont know nothing about other types of meditations. I do hypnose-like meditations ie. during my meditation I get rid of negative emotions (fear), negative qualities (pride, ego), thoughts (I am so and so...) to become a better person.
I have experience from "sucking-in" the Light, in to my whole Mind-body, it is how I actually have at last overcome the fear and resistance of "loosing" mind = loosing ego...
...instead, I just spontaneously, effortlessly, want to experience more and more being in the state of "no-mind", free from the ego thoughts system and identities, and all attachments, for short periods at least, the more often and the more lasting the better the feeling...:-)
I did much sungazing, wearing white clothes and was constantly craving for Light and white colors, all of the time...
...interesting, that I felt prior to that, very very vastly dark inside me, empty darkness, no images, but completely dark..., which caused me to crave for Light, much Light, all kind of Light, - sunlight, etc... to fill that empty dark hole within me with the Light... Its like, I replaced the darkness with Light inside me, - within my body and within mind, sucking-absorbing Light from "outside" into both...
BTW, It all started at that time with my first "21-days initiation process", - Living on Light, mind-over-matter process to initiate and complete a mind-shift, and to release fears and false-beliefs, etc...
Interesting, how things work, in reversals, and inter-changes...
...I want to try out the black-hole method too..., and see how it goes...
I need some time to absorb and reflect over bits and peaces and the whole, and come back to you...
Shortly for now...,
...the life-energy of your body is quite scientific, no worry of a mystery..., me neither believe nor follow shamanism, which-craft, medicinemen or aliens...;-)
Similarly, as the retracing of the accumulated memory/curriculum for releasing and resolving it, is no mystery, only a sane psychology and physiology explained and applied...
The fear and resistance you experience against loosing the "self" and dissolving it into Oneness, is really a false-beliefs based, - a conspiracy of the ego...:-)
...as the "self" is the "ego" with its made up identities and lifestories, which in reality are NOT the real true "You", and are not to be afraid of to loose...
... - because only by loosing the self (the ego), only after that, you will be able to experience true Love and your (oneness) with your true source (G...) and your real state of who you really are...
- Therefore, there is NOTHING to be afraid of really... Only the process of awakening itself may be experienced as a little scary..., as your mind has been asleep and forgotten and confused about its true nature and essence for seemingly so long time about what it truly is...
... - I promise, as soon as you get a taste or the feeling of who you really truly are, then all of your "fear" and resistance will be effortlessly blown away without any trace of them, no more fear, maybe some portion of resistance thou...:-) As ego do not give up that easy, without a battle for its survival, it will do all in its power to delay and prolong your state of confusion and distortion (and suffering), while protecting its own preservation with excuses and making up of fear, doubt, anger, guilt, etc - which all are just illusions as being untrue and false, while in a state of you true being...
Various methods all use some sort of steps, and levels, and maps, to guide you slowly and gently through awakening, as only awakening (realization) phase seems scary...
... - similarly to like when you awaken from a scary untrue dream while sleeping, you feel scary for a short moment, but then instantly realize that you only were dreaming and now after you have awakened you feel again safe and yourself again...
re.: breathing, and energy..., - the ONLY ONE thing you really need is just to surrender to your body's true instincts, as soon as you have "learned" doing that, you will NATURALLY and with no effort fall in line with your body's inner wisdom and intelligence - its own built-in ability - to do ALL things right, - right breathing, right feasting, right relaxing and right resting, and not least right healing and right recovery...
...people, while still "non-instinctive" and who are blocked or blocking-suppressing-ignoring-resisting their senses and true instincts, these people usually need a Guru or a book or assistance and help intervention (from doctors, gurus etc) combined with preplanned enforced upon body action and plan, etc in order to do natural things in a right way...
...but as soon, as you surrender and trust your body's own intelligent ability completely 100%, all becomes very easy, effortless and natural without any need for guru or guide or doctor...
It is therefore said: "the Guru is in you..."...:-)
ooops! a short jump in became a long lasting gliding...
... - as I said, let me come back to you later with further thoughts...:-)
If you don't mind tell more later what you have learned about his meditation, ok? Really interesting to hear more about that...;-)
...ahaa, - so maum means mind..., in what language? Is it from India too?
All these levels...:)...
... - well, actually, a sort of a safety net might be good to have, at least for some, scary one...:-)...- who still have deep unresolved fears and doubts present and hidden within their minds, and most of us still have...:-)
I had once a fear to "loose" my mind...:-D, which is ridiculous really, if you look at this more closely..., as mind is ALL there is...:-) (...- thoughts never leaving their source...:-D)
Thank you alot for explaining it all so well, it is not too easy to express seemingly complicated things in a "simple" way in easy to understand words and in short...:-) , specially because all the wisdom and insight teachings from east seem so secretive and distorted in overcomplication, maybe to make up the demand for a "smart" translator services...?..:-)
You mentioned earlier that you want to work with your heart, to expand it..., - explain...
Are you familiar with chakra/kundalini/prana yoga...? or pranayama/pranic-breathing...?
These tools can be good complementary steppingstones at times..., however I don't like the unneeded (over)complication of things..., as truth is never complicated in its essence..., only translating is...:-)
Do you know anything about advaita vedanta and its non-dualism philosophy...?
...Just bring it all out, don't hold back anything..., we are listening very closely...;-)
...learning by teaching... and ...teaching by learning..., this is how it is really done...:-) isn't it...?...;-)
...ha ha..., very funny...:D
Specially, I like the "sucked" in/out and the "black-hole" expession, it's like undergoing of a major vacuum-cleaning procedure, to get rid of all the waste accumulated...:)
You have awaked interest in me to explore further the possibilities with this "maum-meditation", I want to use it too...
Is there any audio CD teaching/explaining the maum meditation, available to purchase (or download...;)...?
I prefer to listen instead of reading, if possible... As I developed allergy towards reading thick textures books, caused by previously life-long heavy misuse and addiction to reading books...
Latest book I read (which IS one of my favorites) is still under the process of "reading" and absor btion, I just stumbled at one meaning, from which I am seemingly unable to move forward..., that is I am still chewing on that one meaning sentence, now it already has passed more than one year or so since I started...
Therefore, I rather listen...:)
I feel a great need for a maum meditation treatment...:D... now!
....as I suffer at times under severe perceptional problems ("distorted perception syndrom/symptom"...?...:), causing me to belive that the world with all in it which I see and experience is "real"...:D
At times, I still enjoy watching my "life" movie, but the projector's glas has become so darkened and dirty, that I'm almost blind from watching all these made up images from the screen...:)
The shift of mind is really needed now!
;)
Please describe step by step the process of "maum meditation", what does "maum" mean...?
"Silence meditation" ...? Is it some formal practice?
I use the term expression "stillness" as my own description of the meditation I practice.
"Stillness" means being completely still, that is, - still in mind, - no thoughts flow, no thinking, no mental noise, no identification, no attachement, etc... nothing left which can disturbe the stillness of/within mind. When mind becomes still it stops "projecting" and "perceiving", all content of mind dissolves away in to "nothing", as it never was, including time or space, as these too are the result of projection-perception-reflection-experience
The purpose of meditation is undoing of the ego, and restoring of a state of wholeness and oneness with G...
...also, to feel good and at peace, as meditation can develop into addictive habit...:D
What purpose are you looking for in your meditation?
I don't know about "jyoti meditation", - please describe and elaborate further...
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