All right guys! I don't know if you've had a similar experience as myself, but I started body building a couple of years ago and got quite into it. I put on a lot of muscle in the space of a year but that was before I turned vegan. This meant I was consuming eggs, meat and whey protein every day! For many reasons I changed to a plant based diet and believed I would get all the protein my body needed as long as I ate a large amount of fruits and veggies. However, unfortunately I slowly saw myself lose a lot of mass. I'm attaching some pics so you can see my rollercoaster journey. I am now listening to and reading stories from people who have built muscle on a plant-based diet and I have both increased my calories and started experimenting with plant based protein supplements. I have started to see a significant increase in my muscle mass and strength, as well as my recovery time reducing massively! If anyone out there is currently successfully making gains on this diet, or already has, I'd hugely appreciate any advice you could give on how you have achieved this. Similarly if you are struggling to do so, please ask any questions you want and lets start a blog going! Believe in yourself! Peace!
Matt
Replies
You have to take the same photos angles brah! :)
Most muscular pose under the same lighting is the best objective pose.
You don't have a lot of muscle to start or finish with. You could pass for a fast miler. To look swol you need to ditch the cardio brah. Also understand the reality of steroids, prohormones and peptides that everyone who has 'decent aesthetics' is using today on social media. 100% anyone you see on youtube with swol ripped muscle is 100% using gear.
Comparing yourself full natty to the swol crew who use gear is not realistic.
Everyone with an impressive physique is using gear at some level. Im not talking people who did some good photos from 10 years ago and just recycle em, Im talking about the crew posting regular real life shots on insta/youtube etc.
I just got back from Thailand. 250mg of primoteston from the local hospital pharmacy is only 5USD. Thats 10$ a week for incredible gainz. Ive got a vid coming out about it. You can buy steroids at the airport pharmacy lol!
You have to be specific with your goals. Do you want cardio or super strength? Can't have both, even with steroids.
Thanks for your reply mate!
To be honest, I don't want to look as swoll as bodybuilders. I think pro builders look ridiculous and yeah I'm well aware of the gear involved. I like moving my body and being athletic. I'm big into cycling and martial arts and too much muscle would inhibit that.
I simply want to prove to myself and others that a plant-based lifestyle is superior in every way including gaining muscle and strength. I would like to gain some more mass but not a massive amount. I want to be fit and strong like MMA fighters and boxers basically.
Last summer (2013) I went on a 5 day cycling trip through Europe and we averaged 100 miles a day and I had a decent amount of muscle then (for my liking). I know you can't look like Arny and have the VO2 max of Rich Roll but you can get fit and gain strength at the same time if you have the right programme.
This is a fun experiment for me and my aesthetics don't matter too much. Living a plant-based lifestyle is more important than anything.
Bro I just want to say thanks for all your videos on youtube! You were an inspiration for me! If you're ever about in the UK let me know! You've got a place here to crash and it'd be wicked to go for a ride!
A new born's head to body ratio is 1/4. So it figures a baby needs way more energy compared to protein. Total amount matters not ratio.
new borns require 120 calories per kg, while a grown adult who sleeps all day like a newborn will consume half that.
So math is
120*.05 = 6 cals of protien per kg
6/4 (4 cals per gram of protein)= 1.5
so babies are in taking 1.5 grams per kilo of protein per bodyweight per day.
It isn't easy on a fruit diet to intake 1.5g per kilo of bodyweight of protein.
So for a 70kg adult you would need to intake 105g of protein to equal a babies intake. That is a lot of bananas... or 3 cans of beans if you are going the high protein food route.
No food is synthetically derived.
Protein powder you can call processed. They are big business but so are hulk like physiques.
Yeah, you're right, but that wasn't my point. You have to remember that there are also hormones there in the milk which encourage the infant to grow. Although we only need a small percentage of our calories coming from protein many people believe extra protein helps when you are constantly putting extreme amounts of stress on your muscles and you want them to grow. Although it goes against the grain of nature our bodies are fantastic to adapting to the environment. That's why people can get away with smoking and eating McDonalds for years, but the long term use of plant protein use still needs to be tested.
some good info. here:
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/raw-vegan-protein-powder?...
http://www.30bananasaday.com/video/what-a-over-4-year-fruitarian-81...
Well like I said Sam, of course it would be healthier to go with whole foods. All the micronutrients work synergistically together and it's what our bodies recognise as real food. However, we still don't have any evidence of how long term use of plant protein supplements can effect us. You'd have to take into factors like how much are you taking and what is the bulk of your diet made of. Someone who lives off tofu burgers and chips would not do as well as someone living off kale, fruit smoothies, rice and beans along with a little protein powder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yi83kOB8ug
This makes the case for ionized water that looks quite convincing. What are you thoughts on that? Thanks!
Sam, I REALLY appreciate your taking out the time to help me out. I admit I was overtraining as even though I am eating high calories at 4500-5000/day, I do feel a bit out of energy and am unable to do much outside of work and working out. If I go any less on calories, I start to crave fats or cooked foods and my mind gets distracted. When I am carbed up, I don't feel these urges or distractions. I eat raw nuts but I don't get the time to soak them. Is that super critical to soak them?
I will try your split and HIIT and will also explore what you mentioned earlier "Try to do full body exercises 3 times a week, but then go a little further and each day you go you train one muscle a little more than the rest for example on Monday do your full body split and then do more chest exercises after your full body workout. And wednesday back then friday legs."
And I will rest up more! Thank you!
I agree, but what if you are eating those 122g at 3500 calories? The 10% ceiling has been pretty dogmatically enforced on here in past, threads mentioning protein supplementation wouldn't have lasted long a couple of years ago! :O
Matt - you look great in that latest pic! It would be interesting to see the breakdown of your macronutrients over a typical day in Cronometer or similar. I'd guess unless your eating a tonne of calories your percentages must be pretty skewed.
The 'official' position on 30BaD (Following Chris Califano, Charlie Abel et al) has always been that if you want to gain muscle you should just up your calories, but continue to stay below 10% protein. I've always wondered if the extra carbs are actually that important or if it's the extra protein that's making the real difference between gaining and losing muscle mass.
I'm kinda confused about the whole thing. If someone ups their calories to 5000, at 10% protein that's something like 122g protein. Is 122g considered a healthy protein intake simply because total calories are also high? Would it be more of a health concern to eat 122g protein alongside fewer carbs? Is sticking to the 80-10-10 ratio still important at higher protein intakes? Is it the amount of protein as a percentage of total calories that's important or the amount by weight?
I've watched enough of Dr. Greger's videos to know that we should avoid excessive protein intake. Minimising protein is supposed to enhance long-term health by limiting IGF-1, uric acid, acidic metabolic products, methionine etc. So obviously we shouldn't eat more than we need. But maybe it's better to limit protein to a certain weight rather than thinking in terms of a maximum percentage? Perhaps, provided they're getting plenty of fruity carbs in and keeping fat low, the actual percentage of protein isn't that important? i.e. Aim to eat just enough grams of protein to build/maintain muscle, and then adjust the calories coming from carbs to meet your activity level for that day?
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